Game of Thrones: Jon Snow will lead the army of White Walkers against Daenerys Targaryen and her Dragons

This theory posits that Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen, both Targaryens, will, by the end of the story be on two opposite sides, mirroring the Blackfyre Rebellion. 

Read my new theory – Starks are the White Walkers – HERE.

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THE BIRTH OF THE DRAGONS

The prophecies are not to be taken literally.

With this being said, what strikes us, as very strange, is the strong parallel between Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen, which will be the focal point of this theory. They are born around the same time, in the aftermath of the Usurper’s bloodshed, and more importantly, in the aftermath of two Targaryen king’s deaths – Aerys and his heir Rhaegar. In order to follow us we have to go back to two very important events – Blackfyre and Baratheon Rebellion – and read the part of Elio’s and Linda’s text:

“When Daemon Blackfyre rebelled, nearly bringing down the reign of his half-brother (or cousin, depending on who you believed) Daeron the Good, he sent a man by the name of Quickfinger to try and steal away some eggs from the Targaryens, perhaps to serve as a symbol… or perhaps to try and wake them himself, to prove once and for all that he was the true king. After him, his son Daemon II tried to gain an egg and hatch it, believing that his dreams prophesied that a dragon would be born if he did; his plot fizzled, but a dragon was born, in a way, in the form of a more mature and subtle young Prince Aegon Targaryen who would one day be king. As it happens, that particular dragon egg disappeared from Whitewalls, probably falling into the hands of the alleged-sorcerer called Bloodraven, a descendant of Aegon the Unworthy and at the time the Hand of the King. What became of that egg? Its description rather closely matches one of three eggs presented to a certain young Targaryen bride, on the day of her marriage to a certain Dothraki warlord….

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Perhaps the most important of these past efforts to raise a dragon, in terms of its impact on the present timeline, was Summerhall. The palatial summer residence of the Targaryens, raised by Daeron the Good at the juncture of the Reach, the stormlands, and Dorne as a sign of the peace had brought about, is in the present time a burned-out ruin. “Summerhall” is a name full of tragic connotations in the Seven Kingdoms, all thanks to that dream of dragons. It seems Aegon V the Unlikely, that same young Prince Aegon from years before, attempted to raise one or more dragons only for catastrophe to strike. Aegon died, and his son Prince Duncan the Small, and perhaps also the Lord Commander of his Kingsguard, Ser Duncan the Tall. Jenny of Oldstones, Prince Duncan’s lover or wife, became the subject of a sad song, dancing for her ghosts… and when the ruin came, a kind of dragon was born, the last dragon according to some: Prince Rhaegar. Summerhall marked his birth, and it marked all of his days after that, leading him onto a path he thought was destined.”

Therefore, Aegon V the Unlikely and Rhaegar Targaryen are two “dragons” heralded by a tragedy. Why is this important? Many have, as we know, tried to awaken the dragons from stone, and many have failed. We believe a “true dragon” has the ability to do so, but only under the right circumstances. Death of Aegon the Unlikely and his son, and heir, Duncan the Small, enabled the Mad King Aerys to ascend the throne, which lead to familiar sequence of the events that consequently spawned Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow. Therefore, being a “true dragon” is only one condition met. In order to give the birth to a dragon (mythical creature), according to the prophecy, one has to perform a sacrifice under the bleeding star.

SIMILARITIES BETWEEN JON SNOW AND DAENERYS TARGARYEN

Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen are, following this analogy, also “dragons” born amidst a tragedy, from the deaths of Targaryen King/Prince soon to be the King, but this time born around the same time, unlike in earlier examples. Both Jon and Dany are stranded in different parts of the world, going through hell, unable to directly participate in the events taking place in Westeros. However, they are privy to certain events that are of greater importance to the whole picture and end goal: Daenerys is (a) grooming the dragons that have not been seen in centuries and no one believes in; Jon is (a) in the possession of an albino direwolf, a creature also not seen in ages; (b) a warg; and (c) fighting the White Walkers that were not seen in 8000 years and again, creatures, needless to say, no one believes in.

So, the quick summary of the things Daenerys and Jon Snow have in common:

(1) born in the tragedy, within months, probably from the same Targaryen lineage;

(2) unable to participate in current events and cast out by the rest of the Westerosi;

(3) privy to certain events and having the knowledge about certain creatures first hand, something the other Westerosi could only dream of;

(4) they both experienced a certain form of death (will Jon survive is yet to be found out) that had/has the potential of liberating and giving them the confidence needed to grow; and last but not least

(5) they are both “true dragons” born from Aerys/Rhaella’s lineage.

DUALITY OF JON SNOW

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The Blackfyre pretender had a dream that a dragon would hatch at Whitewalls. Egg turned out to be that dragon… Targs are known for dreams such as that. Aegon believed that The Prince That Was Promised would come from Aerys and his sister. We posit a theory Aegon knew he had a role to play in fulfilling this prophecy. Then he had a dream that a dragon would hatch at Summerhall. Rhaegar was born at the night of the Sumerhall Tragedy. We think Rhaegar also knew/dreamed that Aegon died so he would bring a true dragon into the world. Rhaegar always had a special/strange connection with Summerhall. When he dreamed that he would need to be a warrior to fulfill the prophecy he went to the yard the next day. So, it is our belief, that Rhaegar dreamed that Jon would be The Prince That Was Promised and that’s why he took Lyanna, started a war, left 3 kings guards at the Tower of Joy to protect Jon and Lyanna, so he would die in peace on the Trident. Therefore, in our theory we posit that Jon Snow is TPTWP, the son of ice and fire (Ice being the House Stark – The North and Fire being the House Targaryen – The South, only two magical houses in Westeros). This is the duality of Jon Snow that we will attempt to elaborate further.

The last time we saw Jon Snow was in ADWD where he was repeatedly stabbed by his brothers of the Night’s Watch and is currently presumed dead. However, since no other character in the book witnessed his death, it is safe to say that Jon Snow lives.

The brining back to life can happen in few possible ways:

01. Melisandre will use the Red God to bring him back, much in the same way Thoros brought back Dondarrion, which will take a little piece of Jon’s humanity

02. Melisandre used her magic to glamour Jon Snow making him appear as someone else to the brother’s of the Night’s Watch (Rattleshirt/Mance case). Hardly unlikely for several reasons: the title of the chapter said Jon Snow and not Lord Commander; Jon’s final thoughts wandered of to Arya, Needle and the last thing he told his sister “stick them with the pointy end“. Why would someone who is not Jon think of Arya and Needle during his final moments. Makes little to no sense. Jon Snow was the person who got stabbed.

03. Jon wargs into Ghost in the nick of time. Considering that Jon will,  in this particular case, be alive for a short period of time (a dead warg that inhabits his animal slowly begins to die out within the animal he warged in) it stands to reason that Jon’s Ghost life will only be temporal, that is until he finds the way to re-enter his human body.

04. Bloodraven planned this all along (possibly with Shiera Seastar) by warging Mormont’s raven and making sure Jon is elected for Lord Commander, which eventually lead to his death. We believe he is grooming him for command, literally. Also, nice foreshadowing. What the command is we do not know because we don’t know much about Blodraven’s agenda as it is. Does he work for the WW? Does he want to establish the Blackfyre Royal Targaryen line as the revenge against being sent to the Wall? If so, Jon, being again the bastard son of a Targ fits nicely into this story.
So how will this play out? Two words: Theon Turncloak.
There is a debate going on as to who is the ghost from the ADWD chapter “The Ghost of Winterfell”. Some say it is Benjen Stark,  some say it is Theon Greyjoy’s split personality… I say it is twofold. The “Ghost of Winterfell” (as in hooded man who goes around killing Bolton men) is Mance Rayder (Abel, the singer) with his people, which is the reason Mel sent him to Winterfell in the first place as Jon assumed, correctly. But. “Ghost of Winterfell” is also Theon, simply because this is his POV chapter.  This means that the title itself foreshadows development of Theon’s character arch that will end in death making Theon another one of Wintefell’s Ghosts. To what end? For one, Theon has suffered enough. Clean death would be a nice way to end his life. And if his death can aid a sorcerer from North of the Wall in resurrecting one of the remaining Stark children, his debt will truly be paid. Bloodraven, with the help of Bran, who’s been communicating with Theon via Weirwood tree (ADWD) and ravens (TWOW), will use Theon’s beheading (suggested to Stannis by Asha in TWOW) as the blood sacrifice and a retribution for Eddard Stark and his boys, to raise Jon from dead.  “There is power in king’s blood” and a reason why the last image Bran Stark saw through Weirwood in ADWD was the blood sacrifice. Death for Life.

We believe it is the fourth possibility because we believe his rebirth amongst smoke (Jon Snow’s smoking wounds) and salt (The Wall is salty and Bowen Marsh’s tears should not be neglected either) will awake a dragon or dragons. Being born amidst the smoke and salt screams the name of Azor Ahai, but we do not believe Jon will be reborn as Azor Ahai. We hypothesize AA and TPTWP are two different entities and Jon is born with the potential of being both. Stay with us.

In Melisandre’s prophecies she calls for Azor Ahai but all she sees is Snow. This bares both metaphorical and literal meaning. All she sees is Snow as in Jon Snow – this is the allegorical meaning; all she sees is snow as in snow (atmospheric water vapor frozen into ice crystals) – this is the literal meaning that tells us more about the ending scene, as seen in the House of Undying. Furthermore, in her flames she saw a “wooden face, corpse white, thousand red eyes and a boy with the wolf’s head”, she believes these are the Great Other’s champions. We believe one of these, besides the Bloodraven and Bran Stark, will end up being Jon Snow reborn (Wooden Face – Bran Stark, Thousand Eyes and One – Bloodraven, Boy with the Wolf’s head – Jon Snow)

This duality of Jon Snow we are talking about does not reside only in his parent’s lineage (Stark + Targaryen) but is in fact twofold, which has already been foreshadowed by his unique storyline: he was born a bastard but raised as a noble; he is the outcast in the Night’s Watch same as everyone else yet he is trained by the master-at-arms unlike everyone else; he is the brother of the Night’s Watch yet he became a Wildling too; he became the part of the Wildling Bunch when he broke his oath betraying the Night’s Watch yet he betrayed the Wildling Bunch for the oath he gave to the Night’s Watch. This shows us that he not only can fight for both sides, depending on the context he is found in but also that he follows his own sense of morality and logic. So indulge us for a moment here and assume Azor Ahai and The Prince That Was Promised are two separate entities. Then assume Daenerys Targaryen is Azor Ahai whilst Jon Snow, who has the potential of being both as in being both good and evil, is in fact The Prince That Was Promised. Now imagine the following scenario.

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What if White Walkers wake up every time Azor Ahai, the champion of R’hllor, is reborn, and not vice versa – he comes when they are awakened? What if the Lightbringer is a metaphor? What if the Lightbringer is not necessarily a sword? Lightbringer is a means of fighting the WW; Lightbringer means fire; Lightbringer is forged in a sacrifice of the loved one… So what if the dragons, which perfectly fit the profile, end up being the Lightbringers? They can easily fight WW, they are fire and they are forged in three sacrifices: Miri Maz Dur’s and Drogo’s death and Dany’s rebirth. One sacrifice for one life.

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We hypothesize that only one of them, Jon or Daenerys, will, in fact, fight the doom, saving the world from the eternal darkness. And now comes the twist, the doom will, contrary to the popular belief, not come from the White Walkers, but instead from Daenerys Targaryen. And no, we do not believe Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow will meet, fall in love and rule Westeros happily ever after, reestablishing the Targaryen lineage. No, we do not believe Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow are the Song of Ice and Fire. With this being said, we strongly believe Jon Snow will lead the army of White Walkers…and ironically, mirroring the scene from the beginning of season 3, he will fight, to use his own words, “the side that fights for the living” but it in reality the side he will fight for it is the side that fights for the life. In this way we will have a rightful Targaryen fighting a bastard Targaryen, mirroring the Blackfyre Rebellion but on a whole new level.

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And how does one fight the dragon?  Well, with another dragon.

JON SNOW’S DRAGONS

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According to the story there were originally five dragon eggs. Ilyrio Mopatis gave three to Daenerys as a wedding gift. Brynden “Bloodraven” Rivers presumably has another in his possession. The location of the fifth one is unknown (possibly at the bottom of the sea according to Greyjoys). If Bloodraven has the dragon egg, and if Jon Snow is a Targ by blood (bastard or not), this would explain Bloodraven’s interest in Jon Snow, which brings us back to the fourth possible rebirth of Jon Snow in the upcoming book. So far we know that Valyrian blood is somehow tied to the dragons, which enables Targaryens to tame them. Starks are descendants of the First Men, able to warg other living entities and bond with direwolves. If Jon Snow is both, and if his rebirth is of any importance, and we believe it is, it is possible that the duality he carries within himself can make him fit for awakening both types of dragons: (1) dragon from stone Melisandre is talking about, which is probably not hidden at the Dragonstone but is instead in Bloodraven’s possession; Euron’s egg, which he claims he tossed into the sea (see Patchface) and (3) the ice dragon.

As for the first type, the best evidence we have is Bloodraven’s particular interest in two particular Stark boys: Jon Snow (via Mormont’s raven) and Bran Stark (via three-eyed raven). This is a tricky part now because we don’t know Bloodraven’s agenda. If he wants Jon dead then everything Bloodraven did has lead Jon to that path except Jon will be reborn. Being the last greenseer he surely knows past, present and future, meaning he will know that Jon will be reborn, therefore, the only conclusion we can draw from this sequence of the events is that Bloodraven needs Jon Snow reborn and in order to be reborn Jon Snow needs to die. Bloodraven is therefore well aware of that especially if he is in the possession of the infamous dragon egg. He needs Jon to literally wake the dragon from stone and he also did promise Bran that he would fly.

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As for the ice dragon it is a species of dragon that exists in Westeosi fairytales. Old Nan used to tell tales of the ice dragon. However, whether ice dragons did actually exist in the A Song of Ice and Fire world at one time is unknown. There is no mention of the Valyrians taming ice dragons although they did tame fire-breathing dragons.

Ice dragons may have never existed except in the fairytales. There is a constellation of stars named the ice dragon to the north. Its blue eyes points north. According to GRRM’s children’s novel titled The Ice Dragon a little girl Adara, the protagonist of the story, is born in the long winter, during which the worst freeze had taken place that anyone could remember. Her mother died giving birth to her. Adara loves the winter and feels attracted to the cold. She prefers to play with snow and ice and ice lizards. Her skin is always cold to the touch. She feels that the ice dragon had always been in her life. When she is four years old she touches the ice dragon for the first time. She rode upon its broad, chilled back for the first time in her fifth year. The people of her town fear the ice dragon. It is said that it is a creature of legend and that no man has ever tamed one. When it flies overhead, it leaves a desolate cold and frozen land. But Adara is not afraid of the ice dragon, for she is a north, winter child. When she is seven the fiery dragons from the North came and swoop down upon the peaceful farm that is Adara’s home. She and her ice dragon fly towards them and the ice dragon fights the other dragons in order to protect Adara and her family. The ice dragon defeats the fire dragons, but afterwards the ice dragon is nowhere to be seen, only a pond that had never been there before, a small quiet pool where the water is very cold. After the disappearance of the ice dragon the cold leaves Adara and she is then finally able to smile, laugh and weep like other little girls.

Upon the stabbing at the Wall, all Jon could feel was the cold. As per usual, Night’s Watch deals with the dead bodies by placing them into the Ice Crypts beneath the Wall. We believe Jon’s body will end up there where he would eventually “resurrect” being thus symbolically “born” during the cold winter, with his skin cold to touch.

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him.

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Again, following Dany’s analogy from book one/season one, where she was forged in fire, Jon Snow will be forged in ice beneath the Wall, when a new, full grown dragon, made of ice, will come to life from the Wall itself. Needless to say, we strongly believe the Ice Dragon is part of the Wall a mysterious magical ice block that supposedly can be crumbled to awake “giants” and we believe Jon Snow is the one that will breathe the life in it.

WHITE WALKERS

According to the legend the Others first appeared approximately 8,000 years before the War of Conquest, during a winter that lasted a generation in a period of darkness known as the Long Night. A great hero, known in the eastern religion as Azor Ahai, led the war against the Others wielding his sword of fire Lightbringer, driving the Others away. Eventually they were defeated and Bran Stark, known also as Bran the builder, probably as a defense against them, built The Wall (we believe the opposite). The Night’s Watch was established around the same time to stand guard and protect the people of Westeros. In the Westerosi tradition it is believed that Azor Ahai may be the last hero who would be reborn when the White Walkers wake up from their thousand of years long sleep. Melisandre believes Stannis Baratheon is the reincarnation of Azor Ahai, something that is yet to be confirmed. Also, there is another similar prophecy about the Prince that was promised. It is not clear whether or not this is one and the same person. Melisandre also believes that the Others answer to the Great Other, the God of darkness, cold and death. He is considered the enemy and the opposite of R’hllor, the Lord of Light. Followers of R’hllor believe, unlike many Westerosi, that there are only two gods, R’hllor and the Great Other who wage an eternal war over the fate of the world.

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We hypothesize Bran the Builder built The Wall not as a potential defense against the White Walkers but as a defense against humans and as an obvious hideout for the awaiting dragon. Not much is known of the White Walkers, their purpose or the agenda. In one interview the writer himself said the fans misunderstand the White Walkers and instead of zombielike horde they are these beautiful elflike creatures made of ice. They are a unique form of civilization (they have developed their own language which is the first sign of civilized society) that, to our understanding, has the goal of restoring the balance in the world via the means of the nature. Also, it is a metaphor for the present state of increasing climate change, at least how we see it. Nature strikes back restoring the balance to the world.

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In the last battle for the dawn, Azor Ahai pushed White Walkers back, which lead us to the sequence of the events we know now. However, the possible misconception is the purpose of The Wall and the purpose of the Starks, Bran the Builder included. We believe that The Wall is forged as a potential weapon, which will aid the White Walkers in their cause, same as the weapon in the form of dragon eggs awaited for the R’hllor’s champion to be reborn. Needless to say, The Wall is, as we know it, alive, therefore, we do not believe The Wall conceals the egg but a full-grown Ice Dragon.

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While the “stone dragons” are pretty easy to write off (Melisandre could just be misunderstanding fossilized eggs), the “ice dragons” seem to be mentioned too often to discount. If the great battle ends up being the force of fire/dragons/Daenerys versus ice/the White Walkers/Jon Snow, could it be possible that the White Walkers will become Jon Snow’s army and will use the ice dragons to fight for their side? Melisandre is adamant that the Horn of Joramun must never be blown, or disaster will fall… “The Horn of Joramun? No. Call it the Horn of Darkness. If the Wall falls, night falls as well, the long night that never ends. It must not happen, will not happen!” Melisandre is petrified with the possibility of Wall coming down, not because nothing will stand in between the White Walkers and the rest of the realm but because of what comes with this crumble. Fire, dragonglass and VS blades can easily defeat White Walkers on their own, but if the dragons, controlled and lead by The Prince That Was Promised aid them in this cause they will triumph in the end, which explains why Melisandre only sees Snow. She prays for glimpses of Azor Ahai but all she sees is the snow, again, not because Jon Snow is the Azor Ahai, the champion of R’hllor but because Jon Snow will defeat the champion of R’hllor, Daenerys Targaryen, restoring the balance to the world. In other words, by the end everyone will die making the room for the new world to arise, which is precisely what Daenerys saw in the Throne Room.

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Melisandre fears this, understandably. But there is something else, or better yet, someone else Melisandre fears too…

PATCHFACE

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Patchface was in his youth a clever boy with astonishing wit, however after the accident at sea his mind and body got broken. Able to sing prettily in 4 tongues, the prodigy kid was taken aboard Lord Steffon Baratheon’s Ship. As we now know, everyone aboard the ship got killed including the lord, his lady and over 100 soldiers and sailors. Patchface washed up three days later, his naked skin white, wrinkled, and, the man that found him, Jornmy, swears to his dying day that the FOOL’S SKIN WAS CLAMMY COLD. They had taken him for dead, but then he coughed up water, albeit broken in mind and body; the ordeal had taken his memories, and half his wit. Now he is subject to twitches and trembles and is mostly incoherent. What happened to him during the two days is unknown, but the fisher folk like to say: “a mermaid had taught him to breathe water in return for his seed.”

A brilliant boy was driven mad after 3 days on the bottom of the sea; somewhat similar to the mad Ranger who saw the White Walkers in the beginning of the series. Our guess…he saw the White Walkers army lurking in the depths and went crazy. Here are two quotes:

“In the dark the dead are dancing.”

“I will lead it. We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh. “

“What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger”

Therefore, the Drowned God and The Great Other might actually be the same entity. If this is true then R’lhor is in conflict with The Great Other / The Drowned God and this is something that would nicely explain why Melissandre fears Patchface and constantly sees him in the flames, which also ties in nicely with the idea that Jon Snow is in fact the champion of The Great Other. Everything comes down to religion duality – R’hllor being the destruction and The Great Other being the source of life.

“Under the sea the crows are white as snow”

“Under the sea it snows up, and the rain is dry as bone. I know. I know… “

We hypothesis something is happening at the bottom of the sea…

“Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers.”

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,”

We hypothesis White Walkers (made of ice = water) will not come just from Beyond the Wall but from the sea surrounding Westeros too. This would further confirm our claim that The Wall does not have the function we were led to believe – defending the realm from the Others – but is in fact a plain sight hideaway for the ice dragon, which will prove to be the ultimate weapon against R’hllor and his champion’s dragons.

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NOTE: Daenerys can’t be burned, yes, but GRRM said this is a one-time thing, the magic of dragon birth, which enabled her to stay unharmed. Her resistance to fire doesn’t have to be taken literally and therefore, I wouldn’t be using Jon’s burned arm as a proof for debunking the theory.

 

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Written by: Monika Ponjavić and Bruno Guedes Pereira

153 thoughts on “Game of Thrones: Jon Snow will lead the army of White Walkers against Daenerys Targaryen and her Dragons

  1. Razin Kabir says:

    Re: Jon’s rebirth in the ice crypts – why would this be the standard procedure to deal with Jon’s corpse? Wouldn’t they burn his body instead to avoid another wight problem? (Disclaimer: I still haven’t done my rereading and I’m more than likely missing a lot of things here.)

  2. james a says:

    Is it at all possible that the three heads are fire, ice and earth. Daenerys has hers, Jon will have his Ice Dragon and the Bloodraven means to use his dragon to fight alongside the children of the forest. The WW may need Jon in order to control the Ice Dragon ? The bloodraven has seen the future and knows he needs Ice and Fire to clash in order to stand a chance of winning? Also don’t dragons die over time where as the WW hibernate for centuries.

    Also where do the other characters fit into these types of theories (everything is really about Jon / Daenarys). It makes them all seem inconsiquential

  3. Manohar Siriki says:

    I AM DUMBSTRUCK!! TONGUE TIED , for the first time in my life.
    OH Monika and Bruno, you guys.. are amazing. This is by far the bestest plot that I have read till now..
    What an analogy. Truly, SALUT!!

  4. Dick Trickle says:

    What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  5. anon says:

    Interesting theory. But consider this:
    As far as we know WW cannot pass the wall.
    In the first book Ned tells Robert, that Jon’s mother had the name Wylla.
    Beric Dondarrion ideed HAD a sword burning on its own. But now that he’s officially dead, Catelyn might have it.
    Arya is still Arya somewhere as she still has Needle hidden. She hasn’t been that active in the end, but the fact she survived everything so far…
    Aeron Damphair also returned from the sea.
    Victarion is at Slaver’s Bay. WITH a Red Priest. Wonder if he might find the Dragon Egg in the sea.
    Sam has the horn Jon gave him still with him.
    Jon found it beyond the Wall. I have been wondering if it might be Joramun’s.
    All the Stark kids. People think all of them are dead but only Robb has definitely died. I think we should really consider them all. They’re all wargs (although lady has died) and Nymeria has a fearsomely strong pack.
    TPWHP might be little Aegon (Dany’s nephew).
    Tyrion and this maester are going for Dany. And they know some things about dragons that might make her life easier.
    And again, the main point why I doubt this theory, as long as Ned didn’t lie, the name of Jon’s mom was WYLLA.

  6. lanni says:

    What about Aegon? The baby that was not killed and grew up in a fishing village- Will he be left out? I doubt it.

    • mognetic says:

      Sure. Aegon will take part. I think he will sit the Throne briefly but I doubt he is real Targaryen. I have a feeling he is a Blackfyre but either way I don’t think he will last long… We shall see.

  7. Vann says:

    as interesting as your theory is, i don’t think it could be possible for the WW’s to be good.

    It is all based on perspective, which i will get to soon.

    If you look at the setting of ASOIAF, humans are everywhere. they are in the free cities,in westeros, North of the wall, and even old valyria (as the Targs are of valyrian decent) in this case, there are several races, being humans, WW, CoTF, Giants, dragons, etc., and as it seems, the old races, are only those north of the wall in westeros.

    Now, This being said, it is quite possible that valyrins were a separate race all together (sorry i don’t quite remember all the lore, with reference to the valerians, and if they were different race from the human slaves they kept and ruled) , one that was impervious to fire, and had dragons.

    If this is the case, then there would be two parent races, the Valyrians and WW

    There are several instances where the two potential different races, WW, and Valyrian have their “equal opposites”.
    -Valyrian steel/WW steel (whatever the ww’s have)
    -apparent abilities to be somewhat immune to elements(heat/cold)
    -ancient history with unknown origins etc.

    This means that clearly the Valyrians fell apart due to the Doom, and is no longer a civilization. It also seems that this partially happened with the WW, but they were not completely eradicated, and did not become extinct. The wall was built to keep them separate from the humans, and starks, hence its protective wards cause ww’s to be unable to pass through. (wights are not WW’s meaning they can pass, and most likely are one of the WW’s CURRENT main weapon, in the WW’s revenge “war” against the humans for their near extinction.) If the WW are then attempting to wage a war against humanity, as revenge against near extinction, then they are trying to awaken the other ice dragons they have in eggs, much like what Dany did, and they are using Crasters children to do so, as they were placed on an alter by the WW king in the show.

    the targs would then most likely be a cross between humans and valerians,(as they are reported desendents) resulting in the occasional “dragon” such as dany.

    this would then mean that the Starks, who have such undeniable ties to the North, being their gods, their ability to cope winter better than other people, and their desendence from the first men (whose origins are still unknown, just as the valerians), are then a cross between humans and WW’s.

    (The R+L=J theory has more supporting evidence than counter evidence, so i will use this minor theory as support)

    Then Jon Snow would be the “ice dragon”, (and Dany’s counterpart/ dual component, following the duality of his character.), as he is both Targ and Stark.

    Following this Theory, the WW would be the Valyrians counterparts, (Fire/Ice). Then the WW must also have dragons, but they would be ice dragons, following the whole fire ice theme. The first men, who clearly were able to fight the WW’s, would then have fought and killed off all of their dragons, just as it happened with the Targ’s dragons being killed off.

    Up to this point, the the story has only been told from the human perspective. looking down from an impartial perspective, there is no “good or bad”, and the WW are angry and are seeking revenge for the wrongs done to them by the humans.

    Told from WW perspective humans are evil

    Told from Human perspective, WW are evil.

    This being said, all of the solely Human centric problems are not viewed as important in the “battle of races that is now present, as human on human conflict is not near the importance of race on race conflict. and GRRM has been using the human perspective as a distraction from the overall scene of so called international set of affairs. As he early stated the ww are not zombie like and had their own agenda like an elf like people etc.

    This being said, and the whole story short, an army of wights will kill everyone at castle black and take bodies back to the WW home, and through a series of events Jon snow will be resurrected as a WW and so will the ice dragons. the WW will mislead Jon snow with their true intentions, and breakdown the wall with the horn, and start massacring humans. Snow will flee to the free cities in search of Dany. he will find her, fall in love, and eventually convince her to return to westeros after all this time, and her home in the slave cities. They will travel to westerns in order to seek a truce with the WW, meeting their force equally with dany’s force, the dragons.

    At this point in time, dany has begun to go slightly crazy and seeing the carnage caused by the WW, she looses control, and with her dragons, massacres the WW army, and precedes to carry forth their extinction, as well as the weaker two dragons dying. Bran is able to Warg with an ice dragon and save it from dany’s wrath. He then meets up with jon, as the dragon, who is currently appalled by Dany’s actions at the destruction of the entire WW race. jon and Bran then realize that they must kill Dany in order to stop her mindless rampage. This is now the betrayal dany was worried about, and it comes to pass, as jon succeeds in killing dany, resulting in the death dany, along with the other two dragons.

    Rheagars son who is with tyrion mean while is resisting the WW attacks, during which tyrion aids him, he gains followers, and success in the war, due to tyrions help. Kings landing was meanwhile destroyed in the war by the WW killing the rest of the lannisters. The boy is all tyrion has, and is the closest thing he will ever have to a son. with the disappearance of snow, he becomes king and has popular support. Snow has been a bastard all his life and canot bear to be anything else, along with his depression following danys death, the only thing he had left in the world. she was truly kissed by fire. (see what i did there). He stays in the north with bran.

    sansa marries Rhaegars son, continuing the Fire ice deal.

    the end.

    • Vann says:

      sorry its so long haha I’m not an author so it doesn’t flow to great either and my be hard to follow.

      • Lyse says:

        Rethink your theory again. There’s a reason why I mentioned Lucifer, and his links with DRAGONS and BEASTS, and the fact that seemingly good allies like The Red faith may hide dark secrets. And re-read the books, especially the lines relating to Melisandre’s time as a slave sold to the Red Temple in Volantis. I said that the Red Faith often buy slaves because they are easy to brainwash and manipulate.

        I also recommend you research doomsday cults; I think that GRRM may take inspiration from many of these movements, especially the People’s Temple and the Temple of the Sun.

  8. Always interesting to check out new lines of speculation, but for me, this one doesn’t pass the Occam’s Razor test. It’s just too convoluted. Remember when you first figured out that young Severus had been unrequitedly in love with Lily? How it made all the mysteries and seeming inconsistencies about adult Snape’s behavior toward Harry suddenly click into place and make perfect sense? That ain’t happening here, folks.

    Also, much as I’d like to believe that there’s something really important about Patchface and his prophecies, the fact that he has been written out of the TV series – presumably with GRRM’s blessing – kind of knocks a hole in that boat.

    • Lyse says:

      Patchface’s role has been merged into Shireen’s character. To me it indicates that Patchface will instigate events that lead up to Shireen’s death.

  9. Pammy says:

    sorry but bran is the one who will wake the ice dragon ;)

  10. Mandi Lamb says:

    Love this theory, also wanted to include that the brothers of the nights watch that went to save the wildlings at hard home sent in their letter that there were dead things moving in the water.

    • Mandi Lamb says:

      Also I’m so sick of people with the dany and Jon are going to get married theory. Hello? Have you read the books? There is no fall in love and live happily ever after in the world of westeros. George is writing the books and wants them to be unpredictable so I seriously doubt Jon and Dany will ever get together.

  11. Jonny Stark says:

    As I was beginning to craft my own theory, this concept of Ice vs. Fire and Dany vs. Jon actually came up several times. Knowing GRRM’s style, it can be pretty certain that the ending is gonna be bittersweet and absolutely not happily ever after. And after the last book it seems like the world of Westeros will have some closure. I can see the epilogue being many many years later where democracy has been installed, magic is gone and is just a myth (like Kings Landing not believing WW and whargs are real) and the Song of Ice and Fire will be a tale summing up the events that we’ve read through. But I agree that the WW aren’t necessarily evil. The show has given away many clues to that- one of them being that the WW leading the army of wights made eye contact with Sam and didn’t attempt to kill him, which shows that they aren’t beastly creatures that kill anything in sight- they have some type of agenda. I also truly believe that Dany is AA and that her rebirth was when she emerged from the fire with the three dragons, sacrificing her own life, drogos, and the witch’s. That whole scene fits the prophecy perfectly as she killed her loved one (Drogo) and used his spirit to craft a weapon made of magic and fire (dragons), not to mention that Drogon is her strongest dragon. There are also subtle clues of Dany and Jon contrasting one another, just from Jon Snow’s appearance- black hair dark eyes and Dany’s- light hair which represent dark v. light and ice v. fire. So the contrast might possibly end up with them being opposed to one another, or they could be two different sides of the same coin, depending on who the real enemy becomes. Great article thought I really enjoyed it.

  12. Mapglove says:

    I’m a little late to the game here, but I had some thoughts to contribute that I hadn’t seen posted here that I just wanted to mention (apologies if they were already mentioned, there are lots of comments to sift through & I may have missed it):

    The White Walkers/Others are wargs (or skinchangers in the books) – this is how they are able to reanimate corpses, and why the wights eyes glow blue. The warging ability is heavily related to the First Men, and obviously, Starks. The narrative goes that the Nights King was a Stark & defeated by his own brother, who the current Starks are supposedly the descendants of. But in the books it is always mentioned that this happened so long ago, no one really knows if this exact narrative is truth or legend. So, having fallen for a White Walker woman, assuming he reproduced with her, wouldn’t it make more sense that the Starks were actually descendants of the Night’s King and his WW bride? And this is how they inherited this green-seeing ability? Not sure if that changes the game or anything, just something to consider as you are pondering the Starks relationship to the White Walkers.

    I also think the White Walkers are associated somehow with the CoTF. The children have been said (and confirmed, in the series) to have possessed powerful magic, and they are closely connected to land and to nature. If you think of WW’s as ice elementals and Dragons as fire elementals, is it reasonable to believe both could be unwitting servants of the CoTF? The narrative says that the children & the First Men fought off the WW’s together, but if that’s true why did the children disappear about the same time, it seems, as the WW’s did?

    Continuing on that point: the series is called a SONG of Ice & Fire. A song is not a conflict, a song is notes working in harmony. What if it’s not going to be fire vs. ice, but fire & ice vs. everyone else? What if the CoTF are using the White Walkers and Bran Stark’s ability to control dragons to take back the land that was taken from them so long ago? Especially since the country has been metaphorically raped by the ambitions of men? It reminds me of the Doom of Valyria – when the Valyrians dug too deep and unearthed dragons that would be their downfall. I believe this story is important because it is foreshadowing. We know GRRM was heavily influenced by Norse mythology and the Ragnarok, which tells of a great battle that ultimately ends with the old world in the sea and a new world beng reborn with only 2 inhabitants to start anew. Now, I don’t think GRRM is using that as an exact template for where the story is ultimately going, but I think it’s still significant.

    It’s like Jorah Mormont said (and I’m paraphrasing), the lords play their game of thrones and don’t really care about what is going on in the background. But ultimately that background is the end game of the story.

    How Dany & Jon figure into this, and the prophecies and all that – I don’t know. Just wanted to throw some thoughts out there.

    Finally – I’m still trying to figure out why all these Greyjoys kind of exploded out of Book 4. I feel like because something major involving the sea is going to come into play somehow (and maybe this is already super obvious to everyone but me, and I just think I’m super smart). Maybe it’s like you are saying that WW will come out of the sea, but that makes no sense to me. It makes more sense that the dragon egg that was thrown into the ocean hatched & gave birth to a scary leviathan-like creature. It is said that no one who sails the Summer Sea has ever returned alive. And to fulfill Quaithe’s prophecy that Dany must go East if she wants to go West suggest she should sail the Summer Sea vs. the Narrow Sea to Westeros. That is the extent of my analysis on that situation, though.

  13. Johnf535 says:

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  14. Brendan says:

    If Jon snow is a true dragon why did his hand get burned when he killed a white walker at the wall

  15. Patricio says:

    “Therefore, the Drowned God and The Great Other might actually be the same entity.”

    I just wanted to state that somewhere/someone around ADWD said that the Drowned God is only a servant of the Great Other…

  16. […] Game of Thrones: Jon Snow will lead the army of White …2013. 7. 31. – The ice dragon defeats the fire dragons, but afterwards the ice dragon is …… In any case Blood Raven is tracking those fire dragons, and must know …. Also, their motive to assassinate Mormont could easily have been a result …https://comeonhitme.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-will-lead-the-army-of-white-walkers-against-daenerys-targaryen-and-her-dragons/ […]

  17. ShadowSeer says:

    The fusing of Ice and Fire are where balance is restored and life can exist, if one extreme takes over the other, destruction follows. I believe the old gods (Nature) represent the unification of both extreme elements, i.e., Fire (the Sun), Ice (Water). Once balance is reached, nature flourishes and life continues on.

    • Lyse says:

      I want you to research Lucifer. In Biblical mythology he was the angel who defied God. And look at how Lucifer can possibly parallel R’hllor.

      In Latin Lucifer’s name translates to Lightbringer, and in Revelations, he is referred to as the beast, and the dragon. According to biblical teaching he comes to you as something beautiful AND superficial, and he speaks lies where there should be truth.

      How do this relates to R’hllor and the Red Faith? Simple; they purchases slaves because they are easy to brainwash, and manipulate. Dany is in a similar situation to the slaves; she is uneducated, and she lacks the necessary information to make wise choices. Ending slavery is a long term commitment that require economic incentives, cultural change and education. Dany doesn’t realize this and in the process she actually unintentionally cause damage to the Slaver’s bay economies.

      And her choice to play the thrones can be thought of as invoking the beast imagery, as Daenerys in attempting to win back her throne may end up ironically destroying what she crave most; the power to choose her own path.

  18. […] Game of Thrones: Jon Snow will lead the army of White …Jul 31, 2013 – Bloodraven planned this all along (possibly with Shiera Seastar) by warging …. boys: Jon Snow (via Mormont’s raven) and Bran Stark (via three-eyed raven). … The ice dragon defeats the fire dragons, but afterwards the ice … comeonhitme.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-will-lead-the-army […]

  19. Joseph Diaz says:

    To all saying fire gives life; it gives human life. Ice is about the nature and humans bei gs its enemy. Fire burns and destroys nature while Ice preserves it.
    Fire = Men
    Ice = Nature
    You have to look at it from both sides. Life to the WW doesn’t mean human lives.

    • Lyse says:

      I agree that WW is aligned with nature, but the First Men respected nature while the Andals and the Valyrians did not, something evidenced by the Pact that the First Men made with the CoTF. The Andals cut down the weir woods, and the Valyria dug too deep in their greed. These things, in the long term might end up being being the cause of the South and House Targaryen’s destruction; why? They disrespected nature and customs and dishonoured their house in the process. Jon is the only Targaryen who follows the old customs, and I think he even knows that the only way to bring back balance is to kill off the way of Fire and Blood and honor the word of the Starks, Winter is Coming.

  20. Dol says:

    Why would Jon team up with WW?By everything we have seen so far,in our perspective,they’re evil,why would he team up with them?Why do you think they’re good,but Daenerys and R’hlor are bad?Why would they restore peace,but not Dany and Stannis?It is far fetched theory,based on assumptions,but your theory is indeed mind blowing.My guess is Daenerys,Stannis,Victarion as R’hlor’s champions,and Bran,Jon,Bloodraven as Great Other’s.Stannis dies,Jon dies,bloodraven dies saving Bran,Victarion Daenerys Bran live,WW are destroyed but opposing sides aren’t fighting anymore.

    • mognetic says:

      Because we don’t know anything about them…yet. The next book is gonna tell us more. But until then I am allowed to imagine…and I don’t see them as bad. I see them as yet another Westerosi race that was driven away from they land when conquerers came. This makes me sympathize with them because being a refugee sucks. Their name is Others. This is the second reason why I tend to believe they are not as evil as one would think. Also, I think they are connected to Starks (I wrote a theory on that as well) and I think there is more to the story….just like Targaryens are connected to fire and through it with dragons Starks are connected to ice and snow and winter (Winter is Coming) and through it with Others. From everything we know, Jon is a true Northmen. He will never join the forces of Red God or any other God that is not inherent to North. He will defend the North at all costs. From whom? That is yet to be seen. Also, if he rises from dead I am sure it will not be as a champion or a follower of the Red God. He will either be himself or a White Walker aka The Other. We shall see. I have been preaching the creation of Craster white walker sons ages before the show (granted it was the show but they know how the story ends and since GRRM will not finish the books in time as far as Others goes I will take the show as canon) decided to depict that part for us. I haven’t seen anything bad in that ritual of transformation. In fact, now I can assume that Others (probably) used to be humans once upon a time. So, we shall see.

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